VOICES:
I’m very happy to be meeting with you today Minister Matthews.  Thank you for agreeing to be interviewed.  We have a series of questions that we want to pose.  One of the top questions on our minds at Voices for Children is the Liberal government’s commitment to a poverty reduction strategy.  Tell us how you’re doing with that.

MATTHEWS:
Well, this is a very exciting initiative and a big opportunity to do some really good things.  The Premier has asked me to chair a cabinet committee on poverty reduction.  We have a tremendous, tremendous committee.  We’ve got the Minister of Education, Kathleen Wynne, the Minister of Health, George Smitherman, our Finance Minister, Dwight Duncan.  It’s 14 members who, I think, collectively really bring a broad range of perspectives to the issue.

We’re still in early days but we are starting to formulate the structure of what our consultations will look like, our engagement strategy, and some of the questions that we’re going to want answers to.  The Premier has asked us to report back by the end of the year with a strategy, complete with measures and timelines.  It’s a tall order but we’re going to rise to the challenge and do it.

The phase we’re in right now is we’re really trying to learn as much as we can about what other jurisdictions have done, about what’s already happening here, about where some opportunities to really make a difference are, and I think it’s fair to say that we need to take a disaggregated approached to poverty.  What people living in poverty have in common is not enough money, but why they are poor and what supports they need, what opportunities they need to do better, really varies very widely depending on what it is about their condition that has created poverty.  So we know that there are some groups who are at much higher risk of poverty than other groups.  So, we’re identifying those groups and I think in the end what we’ll need to do is take an approach that reflects the diversity of poverty, if you will.  So, obviously, children are an area that I’m particularly interested in.  That’s not to say the others aren’t important but I think with children we have a real opportunity to focus some resources on kids.  We need to break the cycle, the intergenerational cycle of poverty.  There are some kids who are at much higher risk of poverty as adults than others.  We need to identify them and we need to see what it is we can do to improve their opportunities in life.  So, for some kids it’s access to maybe more homework help.  For some it’s access to a job.  But for most kids who are living in poverty it’s an array of supports they need.  It’s not just one silver bullet that will change the direction of their life forever.  We need to be aware of that.

I am an enormous advocate of evidence based social policy.  I think we really need to look at what’s working and what’s not.  We need to invest in that kind of evaluation.  Much of the evaluation that’s currently done measures how many kids took a program, instead of understanding who benefited, how much did they benefit, why did they benefit, is this something we should be offering to all kids?  So we’re really wrapping our heads around what it is we need to incorporate into a strategy, and then we’re going to be out just listening to people.  So starting in April, May, June, we’ll be out.  I’ll be spending a lot of my time listening to what the challenges are.  But every bit as important is what’s already working.  What do we already know?  Who is doing good stuff?  Because there is a lot of good stuff that is happening.  We know that there are little gems of programs that are out there that really are making a difference for kids.  So, we need to identify that.  So that’s where we’re at, but we’re really all about creating opportunities for people.  We have to pay attention to the poverty they’re experiencing today, but we really need to focus on creating opportunities for them in the future.

VOICES:
Would you say you are looking at building on existing approaches and/or are you also considering potentially a very broad redesign of how people in poverty are supported?

MATTHEWS:
Well, a bit of both.  Clearly we did some things in our first mandate that really created a strong foundation to start with.  The Ontario Child Benefit is going to make a real difference for families living in low income.  It’s $91.00 per child per month at full implementation.  I think of $91.00 as a couple of baskets of groceries.  It will really make a difference in the lives of those who are living in very low incomes.   We’ve committed 45 million dollars for a dental plan for low income Ontarians.  Because right now, if you’re on social assistance you get that coverage, but if you’re working you don’t, which takes us to some of the systemic problems.

We need to take a really good look at the programs that are already provided to people in low income and look at them holistically.  What John Stapleton has recently written about is how each one of those programs is well motivated, but in combination, what they do is really prevent people from getting on with their lives, from taking a job.  So, we do have to look at the combination of programs that are delivered by all levels of government, and just really look at it from the standpoint of the individual and how do they combine and maybe create an outcome we don’t want.  So we’re going to build.  We’ve already committed to increasing the minimum wage to $10.45 an hour.  We’re also looking at housing and we know that for people living in poverty, housing is critically important.  The decision that we made to bring down class sizes in the primary years has really made a difference for those kids.  I hear about it all the time, the difference it’s making.  It gives teachers more opportunity to identify problems early and really focus on the kids who need a little extra help.

This isn’t something we’ve come to just recently.  If you look at our first mandate we’ve been concerned about this issue but now we think it’s time to develop a comprehensive poverty reduction strategy.  And it’s not just the provincial government who needs to be at the table.  We need all levels of government engaged in this.  We need the academic community.  We need employers.  We need charitable organizations, volunteers.  We need everybody.  Everybody has to say, ‘yes, we can do way, way better and here is my piece.  Here is what I can do to improve the lives of kids living in poverty.’

VOICES:
An all hands on deck approach.

MATTHEWS:
We absolutely need all hands on deck, and I think if we can get all hands on deck, we can work miracles.

VOICES:
One final question on poverty.  How will children and youth and parents be able to share their experiences with you to help really ensure that what gets created actually meets their needs and really works to support them?

MATTHEWS:
This is a big priority for me.  I always am far more interested in meeting with people who are living the life than those who speak for them.  So, just to give you an example, I’ve met with several groups of kids – I hope people don’t mind, I use the word kids in an affectionate way – kids who’ve been involved with the Children’s Aid Society and I’ve really started to focus some of my attention on those kids.  And it’s because I’ve been able to meet with them directly, hear the stories from them, that it really does sharpen my awareness of the issue.  There is no question that I want to hear from them.  I want to hear what their challenges are.  They’ve got really good ideas, really practical ideas, that directly reflect their needs.  So, I will be making a point of listening to people who are currently living in poverty.  How we get to those kids directly is a bit of a challenge.  There are some organizations where kids have a voice for themselves, but they don’t cover all kids.  So that’s going to be a challenge for us but we’re looking at different ways we can address that and I welcome your advice on that, too.

VOICES:
Absolutely, and in fact we are actually developing a project right now that seeks to connect directly with children and youth of quite an age range, to speak with them about how poverty is affecting them.

MATTHEWS:
Well, I would absolutely love to be engaged in that.  I have to tell you, my daughter – I have three kids – my middle daughter, Christy, spent a year in India working for an organization there, a children’s rights organization there, and boy, we have a lot to learn from them on how they engage the voices of children in their governments.  I tell you, I was blown away.  I went to visit her and I saw them in action and it’s extremely uplifting to see these kids actually thinking about issues.  When I was there they had done consultations, I think in 11 different places with kids to get their reaction to proposed legislation.  When I was there they were preparing for their meeting with the minister to tell the minister directly how they thought this legislation would affect them.  So I have a really open mind about that.

VOICES:
Good, wonderful, and you’re also covering some of the other things that I wanted to talk to you about so we’re well on our way.  One of the things that you mentioned was the extra support that you’ve put into education by reducing class size, etc., and that leads me right to another commitment that was made to full day preschool or kindergarten.  Tell us how that commitment is progressing and how you see that having a fundamental impact on promoting children’s development.

MATTHEWS:
Well, the research is pretty clear that early childhood development is critically important.  So, the Premier has asked Dr. Charles Pascal to come back to him in a year’s time with advice on how we implement full day learning for four and five year olds.  So, it’s a big job that Charles has, it’s a very big job, but he will do an outstanding job, I’m sure.  So, what he’s doing now is, he’s actually visiting places because there are, again, some lovely examples of where this is already working.  He’s just going out to learn and understand what’s already in place, what we can learn from those experiences, and how we’re going to implement the commitment of full day learning for four and five year olds in Ontario.  We allocated money for this in the third and fourth year of our mandate so we’ll be looking for implementation in a couple of years.  We won’t be able to do it all at once and I’m sure Dr. Pascal will come back with advice on how we implement this commitment for full day learning.  It’s the right thing to do for the kids, no doubt about it and I think on our poverty reduction strategy we know the kids who benefit the most are those who are living in families with some challenges.  So it will be an important piece of that.  But it’s also good for families because so many parents now who have a child in half day kindergarten, half day childcare, do that lunch time shuffle where they have to pick up at one place, deliver to another place.  It’s disruptive for the children, it’s just not good.  So, this is a big and exciting initiative.

VOICES:
And it sounds like you’re really paying attention again to how this can be done in a way that will actually work for families, in a way that really recognizes some of the challenges that they experience with the multiple systems that kids become involved with that don’t really all work well together.

MATTHEWS:
Absolutely right.  So, our first guiding principle is always what’s best for the kids.  But what’s good for the parents is also good for the kids and if we can reduce some stress in the family, if we can offer good learning for those kids that will make a big, big difference.  And it has the added bonus, probably, of freeing up childcare spaces for others, because we know that access to childcare is a problem for many parts of the province.

VOICES:
Absolutely, and we also know that it can be so helpful for parents to be connected to early childhood educators so they can get their questions answered.  Because, as anyone knows, as a parent, there are ongoing challenges, ongoing questions, so, any more resources and information that we can make readily available to parents, is really critical.

MATTHEWS:
Absolutely right, absolutely.  I spent yesterday in the Windsor and the Chatham area.  I visited a Best Start out there in Pain Court and one of the things that I heard there was, because they had a lot of different services at the same place, the same physical place, parents could access different services easily, and the service providers could access each other easily.  So, they were absolutely convinced that having that hub of services focussed on children was really important.

VOICES:
Another area where we’ve already had a tremendous advance was with the establishing of the Independent Child and Youth Advocate last June. How is that office proceeding in its development, what are the plans, and when will we see a new advocate named?

MATTHEWS:
Well, as you know, because the child and youth advocate is independent, he or she is an officer of the legislature so the link between my ministry and that position no longer exists.  So the new advocate will be selected by an all party committee and the speaker.  So, it’s their job to choose the next advocate and I know that they’re, I think, in the preliminary stages of that process now.  It’s a big responsibility and I know they’ll do an excellent job.

VOICES:
I do know that from participating in the hearings that it was very important to the young people who spoke, just to go back to that perspective and that experience that they have a role, that they somehow be involved when those decisions are being made.  Do you know anything about what efforts are being made to include young people in that actual process?

MATTHEWS:
I don’t, but as a result of this conversation I’m going to make sure that I ask that question and see how we can involve children in that, because really, that position is for them, for children.

VOICES:
Absolutely.  One of the themes that we’re hearing from young people that we talk to is that it seems that adults know enough to consult with them but it seems to not ever proceed past that.  They sent a very clear message that they want to be included as this went forward.  It’s really important, particularly when it comes to this position, that we, as adults, keep our responsibility to them in terms of continuing to include them, because, again, like the young people that you’ve described already, they have wonderful ideas and they have a perspective that is unique to them.

MATTHEWS:
Well, to go back to my daughter’s experience in India, the way they did it; it was actually the kids who chose, in their village, the person who would act as their advocate when they needed it.  So, that’s miles ahead of where we are now but kids will make good decisions if they’re given the opportunity.  I have no doubt about that.

VOICES:
Another area I wanted to address with you comes out of some research we did with the Offord Centre for Child Studies. What we were interested in knowing was whether we could actually get a clear picture of how kids are faring in the province.  The more we looked into it, the more we discovered that we have many, many, data and reporting efforts in place but really very few of them are talking to each other.  So we made a fairly dramatic recommendation, which was to ask the Government of Ontario to establish an arm’s length centre for knowledge innovation when it comes to child and youth wellbeing. The idea is that the proposed centre would actually link with all the many groups and services that are collecting data and conducting research, and try to bring those efforts together in a much more stable and predictable way, all with the idea of sharing really useful information out to communities, and of course, to parents, so they can understand what they can do to help their kids.  We’re wondering what your awareness is of this gap in the province of Ontario and what your efforts are to address the situation.

MATTHEWS:
Well, as someone who came from the research world where data is everything, I am very thirsty for that kind of information.  So, we’re very interested in doing a better job of collecting data, understanding what it means.  As I said earlier, I’m very, very interested in outcomes.  Our poverty reduction strategy will, by necessity, have to look at different groups – groups of people, groups of children – to see where their challenges are, where there are gaps in services to them, where there are outcomes that are lower than they should and could be.  We need data to start to measure and manage that.  So, it’s an area that is of great interest to me.  That’s, as I say, a high priority for me because we need to do a better job of providing services a little more strategically, and you can do that only if you really have the data.   You need to be able to do the cross tabs and figure out who is where and what they need, what they’re getting, what they’re not getting, so you don’t need to convince me of the need to do a better job there.

VOICES:
We’re just about done, and this goes back to a couple of things you’ve already said which is the whole idea of young people having a voice, particularly when it comes to decisions that are being made about them and on their behalf.  We’re interested to know what all you’re doing to include young people, either as teachers or as advisors or consultants or as partners, in all of the work that you’re undertaking on their behalf.

MATTHEWS:
Well, as I said earlier, to hear directly from people who are affected is at the heart of the way I like to work.  So, I’ve reached out and made considerable time to talk directly to people, directly to children, affected by various programs… with in this ministry.  I will absolutely continue to do that, and on the poverty reduction side, I will be going into communities and talking to kids who live in low income neighbourhoods and ask them, without stigmatising them, right?  It’s got to be done in that way as well.  But certain organizations like Big Sisters and Big Brothers and Boys and Girls Clubs, certain organizations really work with kids that are living in those circumstances so I’ll be asking them to set up focus groups for me.  I would welcome the involvement of others who could bring those voices and that experience and that optimism, because kids are wonderfully optimistic …They see the opportunity and they see the potential and we need to really talk more to those kids.

VOICES:
One of the groups of young people that we’re very concerned about are First Nations children and youth growing up in remote communities in Ontario’s far north, and I wonder what specific efforts you’re making to link with those young people and hear about their unique conditions and experiences?

MATTHEWS:
I can tell you that I have been up north with the former Lieutenant Governor, James Bartleman, and visited a couple of fly-in reserves two summers ago, and was profoundly moved by that experience.  From that short amount of time spent there I know for sure that we need to do way, way better with those kids.  In my community in London we collect books that get sent north every year and people in London just respond so generously and bring in books for the north.  But it’s about far more than just books, so those kids are, for sure, a high priority population.  Now we have a new Minister of Aboriginal Affairs.  He and I have spoken on several occasions, about the need to have a coordinated strategy there, but there is much work to be done, much work to be done.

VOICES:
And part of what we’ve learned in our own work has been that there is tremendous work being done by young people in those communities.

MATTHEWS:
Absolutely.

VOICES:
And one of the things that we’d like to see happen is for you and perhaps Mr. Bryant, to get to know the wonderful young people who are leaders in their communities, that are advancing solutions that work for them, and that are helping to combat suicide and despair with some really good, on the ground strategies that help kids to feel better about themselves and have the hope that we would want every child to have.

MATTHEWS:
Absolutely, absolutely.

VOICES:
Is there anything else that you would like Ontarians to know?  The last word is yours.

MATTHEWS:
I just have to say how really excited I am and how honoured I am to have this responsibility.  I think there are a lot of things we’re doing really, really well but I think there are areas where we can do much better.  As long as there are groups of kids who are having less of an opportunity to be their very best then we have work to do.  We know there are kids in this province who, for whatever combination of reasons, aren’t getting that chance to be their best, and we really have to focus our attention on those kids.

VOICES:
Thank you very much.

MATTHEWS:
Thank you, Cathy.